The Women Scholars and Professionals Podcast

Dr. Felicia Wu Song: Restless Devices

"All of the little habits — these urges to check our phones, to check our platforms — those are shaping us." — Felicia Wu Song

Listen in on an exclusive peek into our fall book club interview as Women Scholars and Professionals book club host Jasmine Obeyesekere conducts an online discussion with author and sociologist Dr. Felicia Wu Song where they discuss digital habits, community, and spiritual formation.

How do you engage with the digital technology in your life? Do you wish for a time when your phone didn't rule your life?

In this finale of our Fall Book Club, we engage in conversation with Felicia Wu Song about her book Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in the Digital Age. You'll enjoy this rich conversation even if you weren't able to participate in the book club!

Felicia Wu Song shows us that even though we rightly long for community, we settle for connection instead, and shows us how our souls are being formed by the digital world we inhabit in ways we may not always be conscious of. Dr. Song doesn't give us a list of do's and don'ts primed for failure. Instead she offers suggestions of "counter liturgy" — intentional habits that will help us abide in Christ, rather than abide in the digital.

Felicia Song is Associate Professor and Chair of the Sociology and Anthropology Department at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California. 

— Jasmine Obeyesekere

 

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Advent Reflections 2022: Part 5

Embracing a New Year: Part 5

This year, as we’ve been talking with women in academia, we’ve heard one thing loud and clear: taking time for reflection is the first step in crafting a life that is satisfying, sustainable, and focused on the work God has called us to do.

To that end, we’re exploring a practice of short, manageable reflections together this Advent which you can enjoy in audio or written form, receiving them in the way that works best for your life. This is our fifth and final episode of our Advent 2022 series, so if you haven’t yet heard the first episode, give that one a listen if you’d like some more context. Listen in, read the transcript at our website, and download the questions for reflection.

We're so glad you're here!

— Ann Boyd

 

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Advent Reflections 2022: Part 4

Letting Go: Part 4

This year, as we’ve been talking with women in academia, we’ve heard one thing loud and clear: taking time for reflection is the first step in crafting a life that is satisfying, sustainable, and focused on the work God has called us to do.

To that end, we’re exploring a practice of short, manageable reflections together this Advent which you can enjoy in audio or written form, receiving them in the way that works best for your life. This is our fourth episode of our Advent 2022 series, so if you haven’t yet heard the first episode, give that one a listen if you’d like some more context. Listen in, read the transcript at our website, and download the questions for reflection.

We're so glad you're here!

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Advent Reflections 2022: Part 3

Staying Present: Part 3

This year, as we’ve been talking with women in academia, we’ve heard one thing loud and clear: taking time for reflection is the first step in crafting a life that is satisfying, sustainable, and focused on the work God has called us to do.

To that end, we’re exploring a practice of short, manageable reflections together this Advent which you can enjoy in audio or written form, receiving them in the way that works best for your life. This is our third episode of our Advent 2022 series, so if you haven’t yet heard the first episode, give that one a listen if you’d like some more context. Listen in, read the transcript at our website, and download the questions for reflection.

We're so glad you're here!

— Ann Boyd

 

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

 

Advent Reflections 2022: Part 2

Looking Ahead: Part 2

This year, as we’ve been talking with women in academia, we’ve heard one thing loud and clear: taking time for reflection is the first step in crafting a life that is satisfying, sustainable, and focused on the work God has called us to do.

To that end, we’re exploring a practice of short, manageable reflections together this Advent which you can enjoy in audio or written form, receiving them in the way that works best for your life. This is our second episode of our Advent 2022 series, so if you haven’t yet heard the first episode, give that one a listen if you’d like some more context. Listen in, read the transcript at our website, and download the questions for reflection.

We're so glad you're here!

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Advent Reflections 2022: Part 1

This year, as we’ve been talking with women in academia, we’ve heard one thing loud and clear: taking time for reflection is the first step in crafting a life that is satisfying, sustainable, and focused on the work God has called us to do.

To that end, we’re exploring a practice of short, manageable reflections together this Advent which you can enjoy in audio or written form, receiving them in the way that works best for your life. This is our first episode of our Advent 2022 series. Listen in, read the transcript at our website, and download the questions for reflection.

We're so glad you're here!

— Ann Boyd

 

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

 

Bette Dickinson: Making Room in Advent

"It’s okay to acknowledge that I have human limits and I can’t do it all." — Bette Dickinson

Bette Dickinson talks with us about observing Advent when schedules are full, the spiritual power of art, and the joy of embracing our human limits.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Bette Dickinson, artist and author of Making Room in Advent: 25 Devotions for a Season of Wonder. In this beautiful new book, Bette invites readers into her personal reflections about Advent and the Christmas story through words and through printed images of her own original paintings. I loved talking with Bette about the way art can lead us into places of spiritual transformation, about the creative work that happens within all of us, and about the complex nature of motherhood and pregnancy in literal and metaphorical terms. Bette offers a real sense of grace and realism as we talk about Advent in the context of a busy December, and her words on the gift of embracing our human limits speak clearly to the lives of academics. Our conversation is full of delight and depth, and I think you’ll enjoy listening in.

We’re sharing this interview with you well before Advent begins on November 27. Advent always sneaks up on me, so we wanted to release this episode as an invitation for you to give some thought to the way you’d like to observe the season of Advent. Bette’s new book is an excellent choice for this year. We’ll also link to some other ideas in the show notes, and you can watch for a special set of Advent reflections we’ll be publishing at The Well in the first week of Advent, a new offering that you can enjoy in either audio or written form.​

So jump right in! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Janice McWilliams: Restore My Soul

"The best place for anything in our inner world to be experienced is with Jesus." — Janice McWilliams

Janice McWilliams talks with us about sustainable self-care, cultivating restorative practices for our mental health, and looking to Jesus as an example of a life well-lived.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Janice McWilliams, therapist and author of Restore My Soul: Reimagining Self-Care for a Sustainable Life. Janice’s work as a therapist has given her a clear-eyed understanding of the ways personal and professional stresses can take a toll on human wellbeing and the way Jesus can serve as an example of balanced living. In her book, Janice describes the pitfalls we can stumble into around the areas of thoughts, emotions, and life rhythms, then sketches out sensible and actionable practices to counteract our struggles. This book, my friends, contains exactly the kind of mature spiritual wisdom I need as I head into Thanksgiving and Christmas and the end of the calendar year with all of the complicated family, work, and personal difficulties that show up for me. Janice and I cover a lot of practical tips in our conversation, and I think you’ll walk away from this with fresh ideas about how to stay grounded in stressful times.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Living Well When You’re Busy: Dear Mentor Podcast

"What works right now, in this season?" — Cynthia Prescott

How do you live well in the midst of a busy season? Three faculty women weigh in with their best practices in this Dear Mentor episode.

How do you live well when you’re in a busy season? What practices can help nourish you when there is very little white space at the edges of your life? In this special episode, we’re continuing our series of Dear Mentor conversations where we answer some of your most pressing questions. Today, we’re talking about thriving in the midst of a full life. Karen Hice Guzmán, director of Women Scholars and Professionals, sat down with three women faculty members —  two married with kids and one single, representing the fields of chemistry, sociology, and history — and recorded their thoughts and practices for living your best life in the midst of your busiest life.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

Featuring Ruth López Turley, Ellane Park, & Cynthia Prescott, with Karen Hice Guzmán

For show notes or more information, please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard: Creating Cultures of Belonging

"Can there be a place for all of our different styles?" — Eeva Sallinen Simard

Authors Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard talk with us about the ways workplace cultures can inhibit the flourishing of women, the strategic importance of women’s contributions, and a framework for repair.

A joyful announcement: this is our 100th episode of the podcast! Will you celebrate with us by rating and reviewing this podcast? If you need some tips, we crafted a "how-to" article for you.

For our 100th episode, let me invite you into a conversation with Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard, authors of Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive. In this book, Eeva and Beth explore the challenges that women frequently encounter in workplace cultures that inhibit personal flourishing, and then they offer a clear and systemic framework for transforming these cultures into places where people who feel marginalized can experience the kind of belonging that results in growth for individuals and the organization. Beth and Eeva approach this topic with infectious energy and enthusiasm, and our conversation is full of very practical ideas for listeners like you! Don’t miss the bonus content in the last ten minutes where Beth and Eeva share some practical strategies they have used to balance caregiving duties with their careers.

Limited time offer from InterVarsity Press: enjoy this code for 30% off of Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive when you buy them at ivpress.com by October 25, 2022. Just use the code: WELL22

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

 

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Sheila Wise Rowe: Young, Gifted, and Black

“We know that the Lord meets our deepest needs and has the ability to heal our deepest hurts, but also — most of the time the Lord uses other people. And so we really need each other.”  — Sheila Wise Rowe

Sheila Wise Rowe talks with us about the importance of mental health, the unlikely pairing of lament and celebration, and the complexities of growing up gifted and Black.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Sheila Wise Rowe, counselor, speaker, spiritual director, and author of Young, Gifted, and Black: A Journey of Lament and Celebration.  In this new book, Sheila explores the complex emotional landscape that comes along with the Black experience for those who are young and gifted, covering topics from perfectionism to boundaries to healing from trauma. The principles that Sheila teaches us through the pages of her book address these experiences in a way that fully acknowledges the complexity of the young lives she is talking about, while also being universal enough to apply authentically to the experiences of all of us — young or old, from a variety of backgrounds. I especially love the way Sheila’s work is so fully undergirded by her deep faith — a quality that I think comes through loud and clear both in this interview and in her writing. This is the second time Sheila has been on the podcast, and it’s a delight to have her back with us for a fresh conversation.

Limited time offer from InterVarsity Press: enjoy this code for 30% off of Sheila's books when you buy them at ivpress.com by October 11, 2022. Just use the code: WELL22

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Kat Armas: Abuelita Faith

"What if the greatest theologians the world has ever known are those whom the world wouldn’t consider theologians at all?" — Kat Armas

Kat Armas chats with us about the navigating seminary, grieving over research, and discovering wisdom in unexpected places. 

Let me invite you into a conversation with Kat Armas, theologian and author of Abuelita Faith: What Women on the Margins Teach Us About Wisdom, Persistence and Strength. In her book, Kat builds a bridge between intellectualism and earthy wisdom as she considers the question, “What if the greatest theologians the world has ever known are those whom the world wouldn’t consider theologians at all?” Through an exploration of history, Scripture, and her own Cuban-American upbringing, Kat draws fresh insight into the rich wisdom that can be found in women who are often overlooked in theological conversations. In our discussion, Kat shares about her own personal spiritual journey, including the complexities of navigating seminary as a Cuban-American woman. Her encouragement to continue questioning the status quo and looking for wisdom in unexpected places is a breath of fresh air. Kat is fun and vivacious and full of stories, and I think you’ll really enjoy this episode.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Beth Allison Barr: The Making of Biblical Womanhood

"The problem isn’t with God. The problem is with flawed people — and this is why we need Jesus." — Beth Allison Barr

Beth Allison Barr talks with us about speaking up, leaning into questions, and thriving as a woman in academia.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Dr. Beth Allison Barr, history professor and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. This book has deeply impacted the conversation around gender roles in the church since its publication in April 2021. I was thrilled to interview Beth so I could ask her just a few of the many questions that came up for me as I read her powerful book.  In our conversation, Beth explores the terrain between her personal experience and her historical research, and talks about her journey toward sharing her findings with the wider world — and the fallout that came along with that choice. Beth talks candidly about her experience as a tenured professor, and offers generous advice and encouragement for other women who hope to find their way in academia. Beth is a warm and gracious conversation partner, full of wisdom and knowledge and laughter too, and I think you’ll enjoy this interview.​

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Back to School: Dear Mentor Podcast

"I start off with trying to make sure the student knows someone is looking forward to seeing them." — Jana Young

How do you prepare to successfully kick off a new school year? Listen in on our first in a series of episodes where we answer some of your Dear Mentor questions.

Let me invite you into a special episode, our first in a series of episodes where we answer some of your Dear Mentor questions. First up: back to school rhythms. How do you get geared up for the semester? What habits get you in the mindset for an energizing start to the school year? Karen Hice Guzmán, director of Women Scholars and Professionals, sat down with three women faculty members — representing the fields of chemistry, music, and business — and recorded their best tips and wisdom to help you start your school year on the right foot. ​

Let me add a special note here for those of you who are not professionally aligned with a school schedule at this time of year — you are welcome, too! The ideas that emerge from these three conversations can be applied easily to a number of contexts, so we hope you listen in and glean the wisdom that connects with your life and work situation.

And one more thing: If you’re wondering what happened to "All Shall Be Well" and "Women in the Academy and Professions," there’s no need for concern! You’re in the right place — we’ve simply decided to change our name.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

Featuring Rachel Barnard, Cristina Espinoza-Alguera, & Jana Young, with Karen Hice Guzmán.

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women Scholars and Professionals, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wsap. Thank you for listening!

Helen Lee: The Race-Wise Family

"God has given us the gift of ethnic differences as a conduit to his witness and to the growth of his church." — Helen Lee

Join us for this conversation with author Helen Lee as we talk about ways we can cultivate safe environments that support families and church communities leaning into discussions about race.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Helen Lee, author and director of product innovation at InterVarsity Press. In the context of a racialized culture in which tension and violence is a daily reality, Helen and her co-author Michelle Reyes have written a book for families. The Race-Wise Family is a book designed for parents and caregivers who wish to imbue their family culture with sensitivity and nuance around the concept of race. Although the book is written for parents, I found that the wisdom within this book can be almost universally applied in the life of anyone who wishes to create a safe environment for young people to explore and grow in their ability to heal our communities from the devastating effects of racism. Helen doesn’t shy away from the need for deep thinking and soul-work on the part of the caregiver, but also suggests a number of very simple and practical ideas that could be implemented within moments. This book is an important contribution to our national and church-wide conversation about race, and Helen is just a delight to talk with. 

Programming Note: We’ll be taking a two-month summer break here at All Shall Be Well. Our team will be resting and reconnecting and planning for the future during June and July, so we encourage you to catch up on back episodes, get some rest yourself if you can, and watch for our next season to begin in mid-August.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!

Christina Edmondson: Faithful Antiracism

"We're not going to be able to intellectualize our way out of the principality of racism." — Christina Edmondson

Join us for this conversation with author and educator Christina Edmondson as we discuss the work of fighting racism in academic contexts and the tools needed for this important task.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Christina Edmondson, educator and co-author of Faithful Antiracism: Moving Past Talk to Systemic Change. I loved this book and I think it is exactly the kind of handbook that is needed to help our world and the Church move forward in matters of race.  In our conversation, Christina and I explore the very practical ideas in Faithful Antiracism, and we look at the work of fighting racism through the lens of life in the academic and professional realms specifically. The book is full of concepts that are both very actionable and very profound, and Christina and her co-author Chad Brennon lead the readers by the hand through logical, data-based explanations and into a space that is safe for self-examination and honest reflection. In talking with Christina, I began to get a taste of the way her spiritual wisdom and maturity paved the way for her and Chad to write this very rich and powerful book. I think you’ll love reading it, and I think you’ll love this conversation, too. 

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!

Singleness: A Roundtable Conversation

"Only Jesus completes us. Only Jesus can meet us in the deepest places and in the ways that we most need and want and long for in terms of intimacy and wholeness and hope." — Dr. Lisa Sung

Listen in on a remarkable roundtable conversation where we hear four thoughtful, faithful women respond to questions about living a full Christian life as a single woman.

Let me invite you into a special episode where we have the opportunity to listen into a roundtable conversation on the topic of Singleness. The conversation is hosted by Karen Guzmán, our director at Women in the Academy and Professions, and I’ll let her introduce our four esteemed guests and some of the important questions they’ll delve into, including issues around work, family, friendship, and the church. The collective wisdom revealed in this conversation is remarkable, and I felt continually impressed and grateful for the honestly, vulnerability, and faithfulness of these women as we asked them to share deeply about a pretty personal topic. This conversation is well worth listening to whether or not you are single yourself. It’s exactly the kind of thing that everyone — single, married, widowed, or divorced — can benefit from as we seek to build a worldwide church that honors all people and their callings, without regard to their marital status.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!

Archive Dive: Katharine Hayhoe on All Shall Be Well

"I truly believe that a failure to act on climate change is a failure to love." — Katharine Hayhoe

Earth Day is on April 22, 2022! Allow this conversation with climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe to inspire the stewardship of our beautiful planet.

Welcome to our special episode honoring Earth Day! Our interview with climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe is so appropriate for this week that we wanted to share it again today. Katharine’s book is an excellent resource for furthering one’s thinking about the privilege of caring for our planet, and this conversation with her is a great way to get the ball rolling.

So let me invite you into a conversation with climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe, author of the book Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. I’ve been a fan of Katharine’s ever since we published a couple of interviews with her in 2016 and I’ve always been so inspired by the way she has pursued her calling in climate science. The book was life-changing for me. Katharine’s message is so empowering around the issue of climate change, offering encouragement and practical ideas without any guilt. But even more significant was seeing Katharine as an example of a person who is truly willing to reach across differences to bring about change. In our conversation, you’ll hear us discuss these bigger issues of calling and integration and respect for others — and you’ll also hear Katherine’s genius trick for grocery shopping that helps her to save time, waste less food, and create more delicious meals. I love the way Katharine connects big-picture questions with small, meaningful changes we can make in life.​ And — bonus! — we get to hear about Katharine's wonderful experience with the graduate student fellowship at University of Illinois.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!

Holly Oxhandler: The Soul of the Helper

"We have to do this work of discerning, 'What is ours to do?'"​​ — Holly Oxhandler

Join us for this conversation with author and professor Holly Oxhandler as we discuss the image of God in each of us, its importance for our own flourishing, and the tools we can harness to learn more about it.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Dr. Holly Oxhandler, social work professor and researcher at Baylor University. Holly’s research in the connection between spirituality and mental health led her to an important insight, namely that growing in our awareness of the image of God inside each of us can help us to flourish. She writes about this in her recent book entitled The Soul of the Helper: Seven Stages to Seeing the Sacred Within Yourself So You Can See It in Others. In our conversation, Holly and I talk about both the mindset shift and the practical habits we can adopt to attend to the divine spark in each of us. I found Holly’s story so remarkable in the way she describes her own transformation from a person who fully embraced the fast-paced nature of life into one that is more accepting of human limitations while still continuing to pursue her personal and professional goals. Holly has great things to say about spiritual practices and mental health resources, and I think you’re just going to love this interview.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!

Susan Maros: Calling in Context

“What we want so much of the time is to have a roadmap, but I think what God is saying is, ‘Walk with me.’”​ — Susan Maros

Join us for this conversation with author and professor Susan Maros as we discuss the process of discerning God's calling and the ways our unique contexts inform that journey.

Let me invite you into a conversation with Dr. Susan Maros — professor, researcher and leadership coach. Susan has written a new book entitled Calling in Context: Social Location and Vocational Formation, which releases in April 2022 (and is available for pre-order). In our conversation, Susan and I talk about the ways we need to expand our understanding of the concept of calling in a way that integrates our whole selves. We talk about how hindsight is often the best way we can identify patterns that reveal our calling, and Susan shares some practical suggestions for ways to grow in discernment. One of the things I love most about Susan’s work in this book is the way she bases her approach to calling on the knowledge that God is gracious and loving and isn’t trying to test us to see if we get things “right.” The whole conversation and the book is filled with grace, and it feels like a breath of fresh air infused into a topic that can often feel very intense and heavy. I loved this conversation, and I even kept a few parts in that were impacted by some technical difficulties and a little background noise — but don’t worry, you can understand every bit of it. In fact, if you hang in all the way to the end of the credits, you can hear a masterful bit of Susan’s wisdom over the pleasant buzz of gardening sounds near her office.

So have a listen! We're so glad you're here.

— Ann Boyd

For show notes or more information please visit our article at The Well.

If you'd like to support the work of InterVarsity's Women in the Academy and Professions, including future podcasts such as this episode, you can do so at givetoiv.org/wap. Thank you for listening!